The 2014 Camry Will Make You Suck At Driving

"Stef Schrader" (stefschrader) 03/31/2014 at 16:04 • Filed to: Toyota Camry, Rental Car Reviews, First Drive, misery, pain, agony, numbness, beige, beige bites back, Stef would rather walk

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"Surely it's not as bad as everyone says it is," I think to myself as I accept the only car left at the rental counter. "The likes of Jalopnik love to dig into a good Camry rant here and there, but it's just low-hanging fruit, right?" Wrong. It really is that bad—and perhaps worse.

(Full disclaimer: I wasn't happy when I wrote this, but !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! reminded me that this exists. Think of a day when someone farts in your breakfast tacos, hides your Puffalump bunny, makes you take your favorite toy into the shop because it's just not 100% right yet and calls you a poopface. The only thing worse? A day stuck in a rental Camry.)

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The counter was happy to hand over one of their first 2014 cars. There wasn't anything smaller available. As the office was quite busy, there wasn't anything else at all left that day, and seeing as I needed to get to work, I accepted my fate and resigned myself to a day with the Camry.

"It gets surprisingly good gas mileage for such a big car," reassured the counter worker. Okay, that's all fine and well, but I'm more concerned with parking and maneuvering it than I am filling it up. Quite honestly, my Lancer is usually a larger car than I need. A modern Camry has bloated to almost the size of Mom's old Ninety-Eight and no, sir, I don't like it.

Although I was only stuck with it for one day before I got my Lancer back, let me tell you all of the reasons why it takes the crown for Stef's Most Hated Rental Car of All Time.

Competition for this title was tough this year, as I also got stuck in a Chrysler 200 with a transmission that got confused every time there was a steep hill. But no, that car had some semblance of steering feel. The Camry? Completely numb, which brings me to my first grievance:

1. This car is the vehicular equivalent of a sensory deprivation tank.

Steering and pedal feedback is critical to letting you know what's going on with the car. Are my brakes grabbing yet, and signaling back to me via a stiffer pedal? Are the front tires steering the car at all? Lightness in the wheel would tell you otherwise, like when you're about to understeer into a field full of cows. Or have I accidentally veered into another lane of travel? Am I feeling those telltale vibrations in the steering that signal I've hit the little wake-up strips on the outer edge of the road?

All vital information. All sorely lacking from this rental-spec 2014 Camry.

I understand the target market likes "comfort" here. Comfort-oriented buyers want controls that are easy to move more so than they want a hoonable piece of kit. Otherwise, we'd all still have glorious manual racks and sweet biceps to match.

Where this becomes problematic is when a desire for comfort overrides the basic functions that make a car drivable.

Let me be perfectly blunt here: if you can't be bothered to feel what's going on with your steering or braking, you should not be driving in the first place. Get off the road. Please eversokindly chop up your driver's license into tiny bits. Set those bits on fire. Then hitch a ride with someone who understands that muting that essential feedback is actually rather dangerous.

2. No, wait—there's weight transfer. Enough to make you seasick.

There is one type of feedback you will receive, however. This car is so floaty, I feel like I'm riding around in Phillip Thomas's old K-Car with blown shocks.

Because I live in Austin, I got stuck in miserable stop-and-go traffic en route to dinner. I thought I was going to rock myself to sleep in this car, and no amount of turning up the radio could help it.

Contrast this with the Jetta rental I had for about a month: bumps and stops in the little VW were absorbed gracefully without upsetting the car. That's by no means a top-of-the-line sports car. Rather, it just has competent suspension.

I suppose you can always tell if your brakes are grabbing in a Camry by pressing on them hard enough to make the car do a sharp nosedive rather than by pedal feel alone. That's irritatingly easy to do.

3. The interior is laid out as impractically as humanly possible.

There are two buttons I use the most on my steering wheel: the browsing arrows for radio stations and the like and the stereo volume. The Camry only has volume on the wheel, and guess which control knob is hidden from my viewpoint behind the steering wheel?

That's right—just out of view is that pesky selection knob for the radio station, plus the screen itself is about as intuitive as the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! after a couple Shiners.

If only one of the radio controls was to make it onto the steering wheel, my preference would be for it to be the one that's out of view for the driver. Volume—the one control that's on the wheel—is clearly visible to the right of the steering wheel.

I'm short, but I'm only 5'4"—certainly not too far out of the norm. Just because it's a large car doesn't mean that you should need to be able to hunch over and see all the way over the steering wheel to use the radio controls.

There are arrows that didn't seem to correspond to anything I could use or figure out and buttons for Bluetooth and cruise control instead. Call me simple, but I typically don't care about these things—especially in a rental. I'd rather blast out the din of traffic with the sound of how awesome I am, or in lieu of that, whatever radio station I can find that isn't playing something completely terrible.

(Pardon the terrible iPotato picture, but you get the idea.)

Big screens for the radio—by their very nature—are terrible, especially given the fact that people who drive Camrys have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! for caring more about anything they can besides actually driving their cars.

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Unless there are integrated voice controls—"Siri, make me a sammich and find a radio station that's not playing 'fun.'"—you're often going to have to take your eyes off the road to use a big ol' screen. Tactile buttons are better to clumsily fondle without looking, and when it takes a scavenger hunt to find how to scan through available radio stations, that's it. I'm out. Get me a different car now.

The other control I care about—HVAC—is all the way down at the bottom, with the knob controlling the fan speed mostly hidden behind the steering wheel, much like the volume knob.

All I know is that someone at Toyota needs to be pimp-slapped by a UX designer. Hard.

4. It has an "Eco" light and no one's had the common sense to cover it up yet.

Eco lights are the herpes of the modern dashboard. They've spread like a disease to various manufacturers, further cluttering up your instrument cluster with another useless light. They're meant to tell you when you're driving the car in a manner that will conserve fuel and other resources. Instead, they just end up blinking endlessly.

This is a distraction right in the lower edge of your peripheral vision. It flashes on and off constantly as you drive. Distracting you. Taunting you.

It doesn't just make me want to start disassembling the dashboard so that it never comes on again. It fills me with uncontrollable rage just thinking about it.

For a car whose target market is the reason why we have "idiot lights" on the dashboard in the first place, adding a light to tell them when they're doing something right in the manufacturer's eyes seems counter-intuitive.

I would love to see the stats on how many clueless Camry owners have rolled up to Pep Boys asking about the light that comes on and off all the time that they can't figure out. I'm sure it would make me die a little on the inside, but I want the full story before I cast my ballot for Camacho and tune into today's episode of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

We've seriously devolved into a society that needs idiot lights for hypermiling? Super-intrusive lights that look like the car's other warnings? We constantly moan about the ill effects of distracted driving, yet we're somehow okay with distractions if they make Toyota feel good?

This car makes me not want to live on this planet anymore.

5. Unless you're going for a nice Sunday afternoon dorifto, these are not real tires.

"Low-rolling resistance" tires have been credited for the Camry's improved fuel economy, but let's be honest: these things are terrifying to drive on in normal traffic. I have zero confidence in their ability to grip when I'd need to avoid a hazard or make a panic stop. I got tire squeal out of them going around a gentle corner at 40 MPH, for Pete's sake.

They should exist for one purpose and one purpose only: drifting. Why? Because their limits of adhesion are so comically low that these make for hilariously easy sweet sideways action.

Unless your side job is trying to break into Formula D, I don't want to see these on your car. Ever.

Especially not on an unsettlingly numb boat like the Camry.

The most terrifying thing about this car is the sheer number of them on the road. Thousands of people who can't be bothered to have an excessively shaky steering wheel when the car hits a bump or who are fumbling through the dashboard trying to figure out the settings. This is who we share the road with.

It points to an even more unsettling trend: numbness and disconnection. The Camry used to be a good, honest little car—a simple daily driver workhorse that was easily accessible to nearly all walks of life. Earlier Toyotas I've driven felt a little like driving a tractor, but it was a tractor that made noises, had grabby brakes and had steering that wasn't so light that !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! .

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This was sadly not the only rental car that felt like all of the feedback was a bit softer than it should be—a quiet murmur instead of a decent speaking voice—it was merely the worst offender. It's as if the makers of generic econoboxes have all lashed out, "Turn that racket down! Erma's trying to make a phone call."

Am I the only one who feels this is all a bit dangerous? Between the confusing interior, constant distraction from a blinking Eco light and general lack of feel, I felt as if driving this Camry moderately well in just everyday traffic took more effort than usual. I had to pay attention to other cues: visuals, sounds and extraordinarily boatlike weight transfer. Goodness knows, not everyone concentrates that much on actually driving from behind the wheel, so losing the extra cues for a vast chunk of American drivers is a horrible, frightening thing.

This model makes me fear for the future. Why? Because people who don't care about cars will say, "Toyotas are good, reliable, respectable cars—I'll just buy this." The Camry will likely sell. Other manufacturers, noting success, will look for things to emulate. "Perhaps drivers don't want to be bothered whenever they're driving over something they're not supposed to." Those already on the numb-train will simply make theirs worse, and others who aren't may start caving to this dangerous trend of comfort over sanity.

We need feeling . Particularly, the feeling of being connected and in control of the multiple-thousand-pound behemoths we use as basic transportation. Let's reverse this horrible trend. Go forth, and buy cars that still give you that basic "I am driving something" feeling —not the Camry, for Pete's sake.

Rental-spec Camrys aren't just bad. They are by far the worst car I've driven—ever.

For Sweden > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:08

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That kind of keychain is fatal in a GM car. You're lucky the rental counter gave you a Camry.

Sn210 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:09

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God I hate 'fun'

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:11

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Audi-os, amigos > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:16

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Good shit. I laughed at "rental-spec." New racing series, anyone??

....no? Okay.

jkm7680 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:16

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Too many buttons on the steering wheel. Awful looking surface also, Why does it need the grips on the sides?

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 03/31/2014 at 16:18

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kinja'd...

Roberto G. > For Sweden 03/31/2014 at 16:18

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Sorry, wrong click.

Roberto G. > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:20

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I'm sure you're just exaggerating, for the benefit of the audience.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:20

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I drove a rental-spec '13 VW Bug. I was very disappointed, especially because it's based on the gold platform. I mean how do you manage to screw that up!?!

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. 03/31/2014 at 16:21

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duurtlang > Sn210 03/31/2014 at 16:25

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You should try a Camry.

Enginerrrrrrrrr > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:27

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I was unfortunate enough to be given one of these when I had actually rented a 2-dr Altima. I am sure the Altima would have been better.

I had the exact same experience. What's worse is I test-drove a brand new Accord for a friend and the steering response and feel was miles ahead of the Camry. It felt like a race-car comparatively.

I hated that Camry for every second I was in it and had to look at its awfulness.

Soloburrito > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:31

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That's the convenience store on N Lamar near the Whataburger. Boom! Nailed it!

Used to hit up that Whataburger all the time when I worked at 2222/Airport.

I forgot what car I was in, but it also had that zero resistance steering feel to it. To channel my inner Flanders, it felt like you were steering nothing at all!

Nothing at all!

Nothing at all!

ihm96 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:35

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This makes me feel okay about the fact that potholes make my a3 feel like im dying

dinobot666 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:39

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All newer cars are shod with low rolling resistance tires. Even mid sized and full size SUVs are coming from the factory with them.

ly2v8-Brian > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 16:42

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But Did you feel grounded to the ground?

AthomSfere > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 17:23

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You nailed my impressions after two weeks in one. Worst experience to date in a car.

Sn210 > duurtlang 03/31/2014 at 17:27

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lol no the band!

Stef Schrader > ly2v8-Brian 03/31/2014 at 17:49

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No! I felt like the ground was made out of watery oatmeal.

Stef Schrader > dinobot666 03/31/2014 at 17:50

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Hate hate hate hate hatehatehate.

...

Unless it's RWD and there is hilarity involved. Otherwise, HATE!

ly2v8-Brian > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 17:52

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This is troubling. It means the all-knowing picture box people mislead us all.

americancarfanboi > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 17:56

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Never driven a rental camry, but I had a rental corolla a while back and it was terrible in every way but one. When you were sub 30mph and you could turn the traction off to make handbrake u turns, or to simply handbrake it at 30mph and watch the back end wiggle around.

Stef Schrader > Audi-os, amigos 03/31/2014 at 17:57

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Spec Rental would be awesome.

We had a Rental Car Deathmatch once. Hardibird had a press Dart, my Lancer was deemed slow enough to play, plus there was a 300, a Buick and a Jetta TDI Sportwagen.

Wildstar > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 17:59

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Has anyone ever gotten the car that they reserved from a rental company. I have never, ever done that. Not once.

Kailand09 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 18:01

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Didn't read the whole thing but i agree with most of it . Not sure if you mentioned the transmission that doesn't know when to shift in that fucker .

I have lots of experience, unfortunately

Stef Schrader > Roberto G. 03/31/2014 at 18:01

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Maybe a little.

TrackRatMk1 > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 18:27

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The fact that the Camry is still by and large considered a "great car" by the vast majority of people is the most offensive thing EVER to a car person. You nailed it... monotony and numbness to the point of it being dangerous.

I read somewhere once that 80% of Corolla buyers didn't even shop another brand before buying another Corolla. Apple probably doesn't fall far from the tree for Camry. How can one not be bothered to care at all about a purchase whose expense is usually second only to a house ? I am as incredulous as you that we share the road with these people.

Anon > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 18:34

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I've never understood why anyone buys a Camry when you can buy an Accord or a Civic at the same price! I can tell you from experience that the Civic is a fun to drive little thing, even if the tires were made of lube. I mean it's no 911 but it won't bore you to death with it's rev happy engine and lively handling. The car is well built and I never had anything rattle in it... while driving in Louisiana! I don't know if you grasp how much praise that is for a car's build quality, but trust me, it's alot.

I will say that the automatic transmission is really the only big downfall of that car, It lags when you put your foot down and really lets an otherwise fun car down. However if you can get one with a manual, it's an awesome car. I've even contemplated getting rid of the Mini (German repair costs scare me) and getting another Civic just this time with a manual and put Yokohama Avid Envigors on it which are cheap and sticky!

KirkyV > Stef Schrader 03/31/2014 at 21:45

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With the right FWD car, some fine throttle and steering control, and a little help from our friends in Scandinavia, you can have some of that hilarity.

Carl (@stuffcarlsays) > Stef Schrader 04/01/2014 at 06:38

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This write-up describes, in near perfect detail, my experience with a 2013 Camry SE rental that I was stuck with for the last month. This is what happens when you are in a long term rental situation and you tell the nice folks at Enterprise that you don't want the Charger anymore because 12mpgs isn't good enough. Terrifying car to drive, this.

Burrito de EJ25 > Stef Schrader 04/05/2014 at 22:20

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Car enthusiasts are gigantic drama queens.

deadpedal > Stef Schrader 04/05/2014 at 22:44

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I find my Camry to be very pleasant. It barely registers on my radar. I go to my cube and my condo and my box stores and my generic State U. something ball games and I never even think about it. I do put fuel in it when I buy white bread at my local whateverthefuckmart. Anywho, I think it's a great car for everyday, fun-loving guys like me. I can't, for Pete's sake see what it is you're so flustered about. Try enjoying life a bit, pal!

[puts gun in mouth pulls trigg...........................

PardonMyFlemish16 > Stef Schrader 04/05/2014 at 22:50

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O I get it. So if you drive something like a Miata, you're a good driver

LOL!

TillTheWheelsFallOff: Brocoma > Stef Schrader 04/05/2014 at 23:05

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I have one of these in my Tacoma. I can attest it isn't the best I've used...

Sorry about the Camry.

JoeLiebig > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 18:11

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Nice rant, I approve!

Now, on the topic. You wrote:

"This model makes me fear for the future. Why? Because people who don't care about cars will say, "Toyotas are good, reliable, respectable cars—I'll just buy this." The Camry will likely sell. Other manufacturers, noting success, will look for things to emulate"

It's worse. It has already happened! The VW Passat and Jetta in their US version are NOTHING (N O T H I N G) like the EU version. BOTH are LARGER, with SOFTER and less sophisticated SUSPENSION and wobbly STEERING. It's a desaster if you know the original.

PyramidHat > TrackRatMk1 04/06/2014 at 18:11

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Priorities, I reckon. You nailed it with the Corolla reference - Camry is a known entity. Also, remember that while folks like us like to get into the nitty gritty of cars, we're in the minority (which is what makes us awesome). To most folks, a car is an appliance to get them to/from work, home, the mall and TGI Friedfood.

There's a similar conversation going on over on Lifehacker IRT folks switching to Linux (vs. upgrading to Win 7 or 8, or going to OS X) when XP support ends..

PyramidHat > AthomSfere 04/06/2014 at 18:15

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You took a date out in a Camry?

PyramidHat > Wildstar 04/06/2014 at 18:17

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The times I've had to rent a car it was never about choosing the kind of car, but rather the type (compact, mid-size, land yacht, SUV)

EL_ULY > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 18:20

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yeah, stupid Camry is sooo stupid and only stupid people drive that stupid toaster, i'd rather have a Veyron

-typical YouTube Commenter

though it might not have a carbon fiber chassis, mid-engine, or any supercar qualities, chances are you have a loved one that owns or has owned one. Its a car, normal driving car like a Jetta, Malibu, Altima, and many others. Automotive propaganda isn't cool.

Louros > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 18:25

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+1. Too much kool-aid consumption around here. It's really gotten ridiculous lately.

steevkay > Audi-os, amigos 04/06/2014 at 18:25

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Ironically, it would probably be an exciting series to watch.

NeutronStar73 > TrackRatMk1 04/06/2014 at 18:27

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The fact that the majority of motoring press loves the Camry is all you need to know about the knob polishing the press does over anything Toyota makes.

Everything you said about the Camry is true; just an awful car. And that radio? It's the same crappy shitbox they put in the Corolla I was stuck with as a rental a month ago. How that thing made it past QC is beyond me. Not intuitive, difficult to do anything, and it looks CHEAP. WTF is that, Toyota?

RodRAEG > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 18:32

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Just a thought, slightly off topic but it came to mind when you mentioned being in Austin, but I always thought it would be fun to get a bunch of friends, sign up for Car2Go, and get a bunch of them over to H2R or some other nearby track. The first unofficial Car2Go spec series!

The Compromiser > Sn210 04/06/2014 at 18:33

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Don't sEt the wORld on fIre?.

AthomSfere > PyramidHat 04/06/2014 at 18:34

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LOL! No sir!

"To date" as in up until this time

JoeLiebig > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 18:34

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Your comment isn't any more mature than what you are criticizing: Nobody is recommending a Veyron here. In fact, for around 20 grand, there are a couple of better choices than the Camry.

PyramidHat > AthomSfere 04/06/2014 at 18:38

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Yeah, I know... you sort of left yourself open and I just had to .... :D

EL_ULY > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 18:51

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People are free to get what they want. If someone feels an Accord is a better choice than a Carmy or Jetta, fine. If someone found a Camry a better value than aSonata, ok good for them. Who cares. It always come down to...

Drive Free or Die

JoeLiebig > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 18:56

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Well, when you get rear-ended by a camry with lousy brakes and slippery tires, you start caring about what others drive.

By the way: if you take the 'to each their own' argument further, it's probably wise to stop reading car magazines/blogs/..., because they will always want to make statements about 'better' and 'worse' products.

John Williams > TrackRatMk1 04/06/2014 at 19:06

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Keep in mind that the Camry is the perfect car for those who regard cars in the same manner one regards a toaster or a refrigerator: as long as it works and keeps working, they could care less about it.

It's the perfect car for the person who treats driving like a necessary evil.

BobWellington > KirkyV 04/06/2014 at 19:09

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Edit: clicked the wrong button. I almost just went Camry-level dumb.

BobWellington > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 19:10

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It's amazing how bad Camry drivers typically are. Maybe it's because there are so many, but both the Camry and Corolla are driven by people who have no clue what they're doing on the road.

KirkyV > BobWellington 04/06/2014 at 19:18

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Huwuh?

(There's no reason for this to be here, I know.)

EL_ULY > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 19:28

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Lousy brakes and slippery tires?

Wow dude, you to lay off the Top Gear and Chris Harris videos lol. Whats wrong with the brakes on Camry? Ive never heard of any issues. Slippery tIres, maybe the Toyo Proxies lol but most Camrys are sold with Michelin MXM4's.

Oh I see ... maybe because it isn't "German" like the Jetta with its rear drum brakes. Because Germans car are build for the Nurburgring and auto bahn and German engineering blah blah blah.

I may not be a car enthusiast but i've been turning wrenches on cars for almost 13 years. Nothing is wrong with a Camry or any car of that class. Enthisiasts do not run the market. As enthusiasts, you should supports all motoring because it can all be fun If you make it fun. Too many kids noadays want the car to dissapear. Try and change your view point. Any car driven by any person can rear end you. My first accident was in my 95 M3. I knew my pads were low but I didn't have the money at the time to change then. I rear ended a lady in an old Explorer. Had nothing to do with the car man.

Lousy brakes and slippery tires

It's funny because when i was younger, i used to make comments like that on youtube videos when some other child made a "american vs german" car comparison video. Silly me, im glad i grew out of that.

jalop1991 > TrackRatMk1 04/06/2014 at 19:31

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The fact that the Camry is still by and large considered a "great car" by the vast majority of people is the most offensive thing EVER to a car person.

You're hearing it wrong.

What those people are saying is that the Camry does a great job at solving THEIR particular automotive problems in life. You're saying that it doesn't solve YOUR particular automotive problems in life.

You're also saying that only YOUR particular problems are valid, and everyone should think like you, and those who don't shouldn't be allowed to exist in the automotive world.

Are you for real?

Misterfu02 > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 19:33

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Stop blaming the car. I had to stop reading once you started complaining about how a Camry's size is going to inconvenience you in a parking lot. FFS.

jalop1991 > Burrito de EJ25 04/06/2014 at 19:39

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No, armchair car enthusiasts who sit in their parents' basement and do nothing but slobber over blogs like this are gigantic drama queens.

REAL car enthusiasts are out doing.

And might I add: it's a poor workman who blames his tools. I'd love to see a real driver get behind the wheel of a Camry and show that principle.

Radioactive_Lego > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 19:59

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Wrong. As long as you got the insurance, rental cars are the most fun cars on the road.

clquake > Radioactive_Lego 04/06/2014 at 20:43

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Rentals cars are the fastest cars on earth!

xangrybeardsx > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 20:46

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Hell, you can go back to the '03 Camry. I was bequeathed one by my grandfather, (I drive and 5-speed civic coupe) and it sat parked in my driveway, under a cover, for several months, only taken out for the occasional long trip. It was a horrible, hateful car, zero steering feel, zero feedback through the pedals, it just sucked the life out of driving and the driving experience. I realise that a honda civic is not the epitome of visceral driving, but at least is has a pulse. Driving a camry is automotive Rigor Mortis.

JoeLiebig > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 20:48

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Nope, you are all wrong again. Maybe you haven't read the blog post and my other comment, but that really doesn't stop you from continuing your rant (whatever the motive, but people are sometimes defensive of their purchase decisions).

The original blog post here made a clear point: The Camry IS indeed a poor driver's car. Its poorer than it needs to be at the price point. In fact, the author would have preferred something smaller (and cheaper). The author was afraid that more manufacturers build cars with bad handling, because they sell. Because some people find it 'comfy' or whatever (really, the author should go more into the reasons). The problem is, that people start driving like idiots, because of how the car handles.

To this I added that manufacturers are doing that already. US-spec cars are softer and handle more poorly. The drive is less engaging (while the texting-while-driving still seems interesting I might add) and people drive worse.

Look at why there are less accidents in Germany vs US. First of all, it is surprising, because Germany is more more densely populated, and the no-speed limit thing. But the Autobahn is more fun to drive (less straights, more corners) and the cars are stiffer and fun to drive (why cup holders?).

So apart from the question of what people 'would buy', we were discussing the question from a normative standpoint: what 'should you buy' and what 'should be made' to give a better ride.

Well, and it is not just cars. Apple Macs and iPads in particular make people computer idiots. Today, young people don't even know how to manually set an IP adress or renew a DHCP lease (well, they don't even know what I am talking about). In IT it's not about life and death (thank god), but people are giving away their privacy because of a lack of knowledge. Just like soft cars make for unskilled drivers.

itsokayguys > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 20:53

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You're a Complete moron, my six year old daughter could connect a phone to our 2013 Camry. The screen is 6 inches because of this magical invention called a back up camera. The arrows on the left side of the steering wheel control the radio presets. You can't navigation the controls in the most "beige" car on the market, and yet think you should be posting anything on jalopnik? Go home.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 20:53

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the way you described the driving dynamics makes me think of my moms 2010 CRV. the brake and accelerator feel like warm jello, but when you just lightly tap the brakes its as if you just hit a brick wall. every time I get in the car I know im going to jerk the car when I hit the brakes the for first time, I know I can correct this, yet it happens every time. another thing about the CRV, its TINY, im 5'9", average height, yet with the seat all the way back and the tilt wheel all the way up, I only just BARELY fit. Since when were 4x4s not meant for tall people, or even people of average height!?!

Hooker > itsokayguys 04/06/2014 at 21:20

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You broke rule number 1 and 2. Don't be a dick.

Seriously, don't be a dick.

Stef Schrader > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 21:28

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Bingo. There are less floaty, less disconnected cars of this size in this price range. Toyota's not just mailing it in—they're making it too isolated from the whole task of driving. That's not good, because it's a car.

Oddly, I won't fault anyone for driving a Camry and liking it. It's just so far not my cup of tea that nuh-huh. Nope. NOPE. Seriously, even if you don't care about cars, I'd point you towards any other midsize car in production than this one. Shoot, even more so if you don't care about cars.

GrauGeist > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 21:35

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While I have no doubt the Camry is a shit ride to drive, if you actually enjoy driving, it can't be worse than a Prius. The Prius has a shit interior and shit instrumentation. It's really fucked up to drive.

Of the various things I've driven, the Prius is the only one to have induced rage, because Toyota deliberately made the car that way. They went out of their way to fuck the driver.

Chrysler's Sebring Convertible, OTOH, is more an example of pure incompetence at every level. If you were to have a car designed by idiots to meet specs from the worlds stupidest focus group, built by drunkard morons, the Sebring Convertible is pretty much what you'd get.

EL_ULY > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 21:41

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We are not on a racetrack!

Because the car doesn't handle like a Elise or have the "steering feel" that doesn't mean it isn't safe

In Mexico DF, a heavily centralized, 25 million population city, it is very difficult to find a vehicle that is automatic or someone on a cell phone. People still wreck and do stupid things behind the wheel. You are trying to make the case that someone in daily driven spec Miata racecar will never wreck because of it handling capacities. An Altima, Accord, Camry, all those cars drive good, not a WRK STi good, but not a piece of shit. It isn't the brand or the country the car comes from, it's the people. I've put my hands on and drove many cars in my day dude. There is nothing wrong with any car in this segment. It's the people.

This is no reason to demonize the Camry, no logical reason. Why do it?, because the Camry doesn't handle like her 924? Too many of you enthusiasts have a pre determined mindset of these vehicles instantly comparing it to a class B racecar when it was never meant for that. Nice seats, quiet interior, better gas mileage than a Tahoe, and something comfortable for someone that drives to work (mostly in traffic) and back home. You can't sit there and tell me that an enthusiast doesn't text and drive of cock up on the road. We are not on a racetrack, these are vehicle to get you from A-B. I know that the Prius lady video is just disgraceful, in my eyes, an enthusiast preaching "handling and road feel" to a potential Camry, Sonata, Altima owner is just as sickening.

"the Autobahn is more fun to drive" "US-spec cars are softer and handle more poorly. The drive is less engaging"

That is just hilarious. You are comparing apples and oranges on fiction and opinion sir. It's not about the car dude, get it in your head, it's the people. If you want to believe otherwise go ahead. "Nobody in an Audi, BMW, STi, Miata ever does anything dumb, never crashes, never drives poorly. "Is that what you want to hear?

I know that if cars came with a manual trans the likely hood of texting while driving and other things will go down. To a point. But it still has to do with the people, not just in the US. Do not believe everything Top Gear says dude trust me. They drive shitty in Europe in any car all the time!

If someone buys one of these car, it doesn't automatically makes them a hazard. They are not going to be plowing down people everyday and it doesn't make them less of a driver than an enthusiast in a Subaru. That is such a childish and idiotic thing to think. I work for a dealership that sells, Volvo, Merc, Lotus, and Astons. Trust me, these people are some of the dumbest drivers I could think of but not any more dumb than everyone else in any other car. If you are in a Chevy Malibu and you turn the wheel, it will turn. If you hit a bump , you will feel it. I really don't know what the hell you think is going on with the cars in that segment. Nothing is wrong with them.

I rented a 2013 Kia Rio sedan once and drove it from ATL to Columbia SC and all around SC in various weather conditions. Not the best seats on Earth but guess what, when I stepped on the accelerator pedal, it moved. When I hit the brakes, it stopped. When I turned the wheel, it moved where I wanted it to go. More importantly, I wasn't a fucking doucher enthusiast bitching and moaning...

"oh... oh no no no, it doesn't have enough road feel... no no this will not due"

"Oh no...no no this dash isn't leather wrapped and the materials are just awful"

In my eyes, that is just as bad as the Prius lady. But again, Drive Free or Die. If you are an enthusiast good, feel proud of motoring. If you are a normal person in a "normal" car, good, go on an get to work and back safely. All motorist in all cars, all over the world drive good and bad all the time. I'm sure there are ways to have fun in an eco box and be bored in an Audi (my grandma, understeer king A6 lol). At least we are motoring and sticking it to the JK Trotters of the world.

Drive Free or Die and long live all cars, a true enthusiast view point by a non enthusiast

itsokayguys > Hooker 04/06/2014 at 21:49

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I was just amazed someone that buys a car that Dodge decided wasn't good enough for production (Lancer) from a company that's lucky to still be in the US market (Mitsubishi) has the gall to complain about the future of cars, yet can't seem to figure out what the buttons on such a boring uninspiring vehicle do, or wrap their head around how a stereo could double a display for a backup camera.

Chairman Kaga > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 21:49

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Ooh ooh ooh. Then you'd REALLY fall in love with the new Highlander. I mean, no question. Start with everything that makes the 2014 Camry such a winning package, add the mass of Black Sabbath's Sabotage, lift it to roughly the same elevation as King Kong's testa-cles, stretch it as if it's making passage through a black hole, and voila.

I PRAY Ford has the courage to give us a Fusion ST wagon in the next couple of years. Otherwise I'm finding a Volvo T-5R and calling it a day.

arfy900 > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 21:52

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Stef Schrader > jalop1991 04/06/2014 at 21:53

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Funny—I spent all weekend at a rallycross event, built a 944 to race in the past six months (and finished in the top third despite being up against extremely well-sorted teams who've been doing those races for years) and regularly flog a sub-$20K daily driver on track for the lulz.

I'm not sure what your definition of "doing" is, but perhaps you need a dictionary.

Oppo rules 1 and 2—I suggest a refresher. Yeah, this was written when I was being an enormous grouch, but the numbing down of basic transportation for people who don't care about pesky concepts like weight transfer or stopping distance genuinely frightens me. People who don't really care about cars beyond "this thing will take me to places" generally don't take the time to learn that "oh, this is on tires that have less grip—maybe I shouldn't tailgate this poor sap in front of me so I can stop it in case of an emergency?" Besides, a car is meant to drive, not to cocoon you—as a driver—from that driving experience. I'm grouchy about this for good reason.

Capable hands could most likely flog a Camry, yes, but your average driver's ed course doesn't really teach the average buyer how to watch for other cues when your car has pedals and steering so devoid of feeling that they would be shamed by most video game wheel setups. That's who I'm talking about with the title—the average dude. Congrats if you're outside that norm and can hoon the wheels off of one anyway.

WeissGuy > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 21:54

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That is why when my girlfriend thought she wanted a Jetta, I convince her to buy a Golf TDI instead.

The Golf is superior to the Jetta in every possible way. I dunno about the 2014s though, they're not actually made in Germany anymore are they?

Hooker > itsokayguys 04/06/2014 at 21:55

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Still, name calling is not something that's tolerated around these parts. I doesn't serve any purpose other than to upset others. It's ok to disagree with people, just don't be a dick. Also, I firmly believe that her post was designed to be overly judgmental of the car for her intended audience. I am certain Ms. Schrader is more than capable of using new technology given enough time. I think the point she was trying to make is that it wasn't intuitive. Different strokes for different folks. Again, the article was written for a specific audience that would understand the humor/sarcasm.

JoeLiebig > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 22:04

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Dude, maybe a therapist can help. This is the wrong outlet for anger. Flaming an enthusiast forum with you hate won't help you. You make so many misguided assumptions about car enthusiasts, stereotyping, accusing... just to spread your hate. And you still miss the point: less engaging rides demand less attention, thus (on average) less safety. Of course there are extremes here and there, but that isn't the point.

And I don't see how anyone is saying 'xxx drivers are stupid'. It's only you getting personal.

jalop1991 > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 22:04

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You're blaming the car companies? You're nuts. They're simply providing the product that the customer wants—those "people who don't care about pesky concepts like weight transfer or stopping distance".

And it's your stand that..what? Those people shouldn't be allowed to have cars that satisfy their needs and wants, if in fact those cars don't satisfy YOUR needs and wants?

This all comes down to you whining that people are different from you, and going so far as to saying they don't have any right to be themselves and to buy products they want???

And given your "troll" comment, it's clear that you can't conceive that the world doesn't revolve around you and your desires. Anyone who dares to call you out on that is a "troll". That adds nicely to your views that anyone who doesn't care about driving the same way you do should not be allowed to drive or own a car.

JoeLiebig > WeissGuy 04/06/2014 at 22:06

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Mexico. At least that's what they say (and I mailed them). Well, it's about the assembly. Through the free trade agreement, they can export it cheaper from Mexico. Not sure how much is 'made' there, of it's just assembly. We'll have to wait and see.

GoPDemon > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 22:06

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I haven't seen this mentioned in years, but what happened to camry's learning about the drivers and adjusting the ECU to fit certain driving types?

CJinOB > jalop1991 04/06/2014 at 22:09

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Stef drives a Lancer. This whole article is delusional.

EL_ULY > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 22:13

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I'm not hating on enthusiasts. I though I made it cleat that I'm supporting all forms of motoring. I've been busting ass on cars for a very long time. From a tiny gas station service center in south Texas to high end dealerships. My logic comes from experience working on and driving cars. Everyone in every kind of car drive well and bad. I think OPPO has been very welcoming of my "grump mechnic" view on all cars. Stef is awesome as well as everyone here on OPPO. I'm wearing my OPPO shirt as I type and met up some OPPOnauts at Cars & Coffee yesterday. In such a small amount of time, me and my good friend Mycarneverruns87 created the HWEP. This place rules and i'm not hating on it or anything. Im just a supporter of all motoring form being stuck in traffic in a Camry to Formula 1.

JoeLiebig > EL_ULY 04/06/2014 at 22:16

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Well, to 'Everyone in every kind of car drive well and bad.' Sure, but in equal proportions? Regardless, that is not the point. I am suggesting that a Camry driver would become a better driver if he had a better car.

itsokayguys > Hooker 04/06/2014 at 22:16

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Apparently she's not been in an (optima, sonata, malibu, fusion, mazda6, altima... etc.) Not any more impressive at a base model than a camry or any other midsized class car. Even the entry level c-class, 3-series, a4 or cts IMHO aren't exactly awe inspiring. But the camry isn't that much worse than any other in this class. I've driven most all of the cars in this segment, except nissan, they're really all just pigs, some just have better makeup on.

Maxaxle > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 22:17

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About the low-rolling-resistance tires: Considering the fact that I very unfortunately daily drive a '99 Camry (parents' car; ZERO intention of inheriting it), maybe the prioritizing of efficiency over performance is to blame for the wimpy, squealy tires that my dad really likes ("The manufacturer knows best, so we're replacing the tires with the same ones it rolled off the factory floor with," not that his mindset is wrong per se).

EL_ULY > JoeLiebig 04/06/2014 at 22:25

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And that's where I cannot 100% agree

I just don't see how much better a person driving in traffic at 25 mph can get if you switched that same person from a Camry to a 911 in that (most common) scenario. From what i've seen in my day, people suck ass in anything and are good in everything.

yamanote > itsokayguys 04/06/2014 at 22:26

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Funny you should say that, because I've driven all of the vehicles you mentioned (thanks Hertz & Enterprise), and I found every single one to be more interesting to drive than the Camry. They're all somewhat dull econo four door sedans, but the Camry was the only one that stood out as especially boring. I'd say the new Mazda6 was the best to drive in its segment.

All I can say is, I hope you got a heckuva deal on your 2013, because at the same price, I'd have any one of the others in a heartbeat.

Matt McDougall > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 22:40

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Honest question - when did Toyota get terrible? Their past is full of FJ40s, FJ60s, FJ80s, 4Runner, Tacoma, Supra, MR2...even the early Corollas and Camrys were as you say workhorses.

Back around ten years ago, I test drove one of the new-then Tacomas. This was the generation where they just bloated up. And my god, the thing had no steering feel, no feedback...you get more tactile sensation playing Pole Position.

I've stayed far away from Toyotas since...

itsokayguys > yamanote 04/06/2014 at 22:41

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The exterior of the 6 and Fusion are best in class I'll give them at least that much. But, I dont like the loss of rear head room just for a sleeker side profile. 1 year and 8k on the clock @1.9apr was just too good to pass up. I almost got the fusion instead of, but this far in I still like the camry for what it is. Just another midsized sedan.

JQJ213- Now With An Extra Cylinder! > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 23:02

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Everything you say is quite true here! My Civic has Firestones with the same thing and I get wheelspin way too easily.

Sn210 > The Compromiser 04/06/2014 at 23:32

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I don't want to glow brighter, than the sun.

Ark > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 23:32

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You didn't mention the mass psychosis of Consumer Reports saying Camrys "hold their value" better than anything else, so people buy Camrys, and Camry owners tell people they "hold their value", so people pay more for used Camrys, so Consumer Reports tells people Camrys "hold their value". It's a self-reinforcing mass delusion that makes these boring shitboxes the backbone of sedan sales.

Stef Schrader > Maxaxle 04/06/2014 at 23:40

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Eeeeeek. OEM tires often just seem like the cheapeast option they can negotiate a supply of as opposed to one that's well-suited for the car.

RH > Stef Schrader 04/06/2014 at 23:48

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I mean technically your not feeling the weight transfer, I think you really meant body pitch which doesnt necessarily correlate to weight transfer

Stef Schrader > RH 04/06/2014 at 23:53

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Yep—that. Pitch is often a good indicator of where the weight's going unless you're just tossing things around back and forth, though.

BobWellington > KirkyV 04/07/2014 at 00:07

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I clicked reply on your comment instead of clicking the Discuss button to make a new comment and then made a comment that had nothing to do with yours and then I wanted to delete it but I couldn't. haha

Iamopenlyjudgingyou > Stef Schrader 04/07/2014 at 00:14

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I actually own, by choice a 2002 Camry LE with a 2.4 and the manual. I bought it few years back as a station car. Something that could do double duty in case our regular family car took a dump (Mazda6 wagon). Added bonus is that I could care less what happens to it in the train station parking lot.

Steering sucks. Suspension sucks, clutch take up is meh but the gearbox isn't bad. It doesn't have ABS or any kinda stability\traction\automatic butt wiper. The 2.4 is harsh and runs out of steam quickly BUT the car gets out of it own way and doesn't feel slow. It has plenty of room for the family and a big trunk, last road trip saw 500+ miles out of one tank off gas carrying 2 car seats and 3 adults (5'9, 6'2 and 6'1) along with luggage.

When I first got it, I had the same reaction as everyone else but then I learned the secret.

Don't drive like an asshole on public roads. Stay within 15mph of the posted speed limit. Don't weave in and out of traffic. Don't tailgate. Pay attention to whats go on around you and just be smooth and predictable.

I also ride sportbikes and I have taken this thing through the same set of twisties. While I'm not hitting the same speeds as I am in other vehicles, I'm not that far off. I've found the car to reacts well to steering with the throttle and its fairly predictable. Brakes are good and balanced despite the lack of abs I've never had any issues - snow rain dry in getting this thing to stop.

Don't get me wrong, I 'm looking forward to replacing it with any other car besides a Camry but after several years of driving it I can respect the car for what it is. I've driven newer ones and they weren't as bad as everyone makes them to be.

HOWEVER - I only drive stick. I don't have much seat time in the automatic versions.

The story on how I got the car was this.

My Car at the time was exhibiting symptoms of money pit-o-titus and I was pretty much done with it. I originally wanted a GTO, but I also wanted to get another motorcycle. Wife was resistant to the idea of 2 toys. So searched around for any large family car (that could fit tall people and car seats, something our Mazda6 has trouble with it) with a manual and the Camry was the cheapest and only had 38K on it. Dealer was desperate to get rid of it because of Camry + stick shift + NYC = sit on lot for months. Offered him 4 figures to his 5 and we struck a deal.

10 months later - I got the bike I had been drooling over.

hueyhusk > Stef Schrader 04/07/2014 at 00:15

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This seems like a bad place for... Nav controls? Also I hate how the phone button takes up all useable space on the other side. Bluetooth answering is nice, but it does not need a dedicated 50% of wheel button space.

MN > Audi-os, amigos 04/07/2014 at 00:15

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I would SO buy tickets for that! Howzabout holding it at.....

http://www.circuitoftheamericas.com/

MN > JoeLiebig 04/07/2014 at 00:16

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Actually, a couple of HUNDRED better choices.....

MN > Stef Schrader 04/07/2014 at 00:18

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Oh, not at ALL. Some of the OEM spec tires are bloody expensive. I remember Nissan's trick of using expensive, soft, tires to make up for the terrible ride of the Altima. Put regular Michelins on it and you'd think you stepped into a Pathfinder!

hueyhusk > Stef Schrader 04/07/2014 at 00:18

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I also hate this gauge. Naturally aspirated Inline Six BMW owners can attest that it is useless and just lets you know that pressing throttle: 0 MPG, no throttle: 50 MPG.

Stef Schrader > MN 04/07/2014 at 00:21

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Truth. I think Mom's SRX came with some kind of ridiculously low treadwear tires for...it's a crossover/truckish thing.

Oh, and don't get me started on Porsche's N-Spec. There are way, way too many people who go "Porsche says this is the best, so I'm going to ignore all information on what suits my purposes better."